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	<title>Comments on: The Virgin &amp; the Abbott</title>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Virgin &#38; the Abbott « Thinking My Way Through -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://davefagg.com.au/2010/01/the-virgin-the-abbott/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Virgin &#38; the Abbott « Thinking My Way Through -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davefagg.com.au/?p=601#comment-24</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dave Fagg, seedsprayer. seedsprayer said: Dave Fagg of Seeds Bendigo writes of Tony Abbott&#039;s daughters... http://wp.me/p5CsZ-9H (via @davefagg) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dave Fagg, seedsprayer. seedsprayer said: Dave Fagg of Seeds Bendigo writes of Tony Abbott&#39;s daughters&#8230; <a href="http://wp.me/p5CsZ-9H" rel="nofollow">http://wp.me/p5CsZ-9H</a> (via @davefagg) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Sherlock</title>
		<link>http://davefagg.com.au/2010/01/the-virgin-the-abbott/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Sherlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 04:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davefagg.com.au/?p=601#comment-23</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right on the money, Dave - have you seen the discussion on Eureka Street (Friday Jan 29 I think)?

Re relationships, I find it hard to think of any which don&#039;t in some way involve government, because none is entirely &#039;private&#039;. But the nature of government involvement - ah, that is the question! A close friend has been at Centrelink for yonks, and always resents having to ask questions about how &#039;together&#039; a couple lives to decide whether they should be counted as a de facto couple or two singles house-sharing, for example.

And while on being a virgin (&#039;virginity&#039; is an abstract notion, easily politicised / moralised) I do not understand why the public media seems only to think in terms of it applying to women. Yes, I know that for most women there is a physical dimension in the hymen being broken ... but it also reflects a quite deep patriarchal sense of men being OK to sow wild oats while women are to be kept &#039;pure&#039; for men.

While on the topic, why do we speak of &#039;losing virginity&#039; rather than &#039;becoming one fleshed&#039;, which is both more biblical and applies to both sexes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right on the money, Dave &#8211; have you seen the discussion on Eureka Street (Friday Jan 29 I think)?</p>
<p>Re relationships, I find it hard to think of any which don&#8217;t in some way involve government, because none is entirely &#8216;private&#8217;. But the nature of government involvement &#8211; ah, that is the question! A close friend has been at Centrelink for yonks, and always resents having to ask questions about how &#8216;together&#8217; a couple lives to decide whether they should be counted as a de facto couple or two singles house-sharing, for example.</p>
<p>And while on being a virgin (&#8216;virginity&#8217; is an abstract notion, easily politicised / moralised) I do not understand why the public media seems only to think in terms of it applying to women. Yes, I know that for most women there is a physical dimension in the hymen being broken &#8230; but it also reflects a quite deep patriarchal sense of men being OK to sow wild oats while women are to be kept &#8216;pure&#8217; for men.</p>
<p>While on the topic, why do we speak of &#8216;losing virginity&#8217; rather than &#8216;becoming one fleshed&#8217;, which is both more biblical and applies to both sexes?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kroker</title>
		<link>http://davefagg.com.au/2010/01/the-virgin-the-abbott/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kroker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davefagg.com.au/?p=601#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Yes, I want politicians to express moral views!!!

Like Julia Gillard, I do not have children of my own.
Like Tony Abbott, if I had children, I&#039;d encourage them to think carefully about how well they know, and how committed they are to the people they decide to share themselves with.
This has nothing to do with any notion of the value of virginity per se.
Because I am not a politician, I take the liberty to go further and share my personal opinion with anyone who enquires, and those to whom I have earned the respect to tell...
Over the past fortnight or so, I&#039;ve counselled four friends (girls/women) who have been untangling the messy ball of wool that their “relationships” have quickly become.  The general drift of my advice has been to place higher value on their own worth as a person, and not to put up with disrespectful behaviour from their man/boy.  And in future, to take the time to get to know who he really is prior to making decisions relating to short term pleasure &amp; comfort and long term happiness &amp; contentment.

I&#039;m glad Tony made a genuinely honest response to a question about his personal values, rather than politiking the opportunity like Julia has done in response – its good to let humans be humans, especially when on their own time.  I do not believe that politicians should be expected to be touting a political case full time.  They are people first, politicians second at the most.

Even still, I do expect our politicians to be foremost concerned with the future of the nation, especially over the longevity of their party&#039;s time in government.  I expect leaders to make difficult decisions that may be unpopular, if they are good for the future of the country (a balanced weighting on social, environmental and economic sustainability is a good start for judging what may or may not be “good”).

There are enough examples of collapse of society being preceded by wealthy, secure and comfortable citizens collectively acting on value of individual-freedom-without-responsibility over self-restraint after consideration of consequences for beyond-self.

After all, isn&#039;t that essentially what morality is about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I want politicians to express moral views!!!</p>
<p>Like Julia Gillard, I do not have children of my own.<br />
Like Tony Abbott, if I had children, I&#8217;d encourage them to think carefully about how well they know, and how committed they are to the people they decide to share themselves with.<br />
This has nothing to do with any notion of the value of virginity per se.<br />
Because I am not a politician, I take the liberty to go further and share my personal opinion with anyone who enquires, and those to whom I have earned the respect to tell&#8230;<br />
Over the past fortnight or so, I&#8217;ve counselled four friends (girls/women) who have been untangling the messy ball of wool that their “relationships” have quickly become.  The general drift of my advice has been to place higher value on their own worth as a person, and not to put up with disrespectful behaviour from their man/boy.  And in future, to take the time to get to know who he really is prior to making decisions relating to short term pleasure &amp; comfort and long term happiness &amp; contentment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad Tony made a genuinely honest response to a question about his personal values, rather than politiking the opportunity like Julia has done in response – its good to let humans be humans, especially when on their own time.  I do not believe that politicians should be expected to be touting a political case full time.  They are people first, politicians second at the most.</p>
<p>Even still, I do expect our politicians to be foremost concerned with the future of the nation, especially over the longevity of their party&#8217;s time in government.  I expect leaders to make difficult decisions that may be unpopular, if they are good for the future of the country (a balanced weighting on social, environmental and economic sustainability is a good start for judging what may or may not be “good”).</p>
<p>There are enough examples of collapse of society being preceded by wealthy, secure and comfortable citizens collectively acting on value of individual-freedom-without-responsibility over self-restraint after consideration of consequences for beyond-self.</p>
<p>After all, isn&#8217;t that essentially what morality is about?</p>
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